swing implementation

[Troy Wu]

A short preface: I've been lurking on this list for a while, and I've
only recently started my quasi-shouting about Swing.  I really believe
in its programming model and its potential to rival all the other
X-based GUI widget- and toolkits.  Having done some work in my own
implementation, I think that I could bring some value to the group.

	I'm certainly not trying to offend anyone.

It's late for me; perhaps I'm off my rocker.  In any case, I've
appended my thoughts about Magnus's response.

			*	*	*

On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, Magnus Persson wrote:

  Why not use kaffe:s (www.kaffe.org) libraries ?
  
I was intrigued, and went out to kaffe's site.  I downloaded the
sources and grep'ed through the files (grep -i swing `find . -type f`
should do it =).  Here's what I found (in FAQ/FAQ.awt):

	--
	We completely support Swing (in its many forms and releases).

	Whatever Sun may tell you about Swing being 100% pure Java -
	just don't believe them.  Swing make a number of assumptions
	about the underlying AWT implementation and makes calls to a
	number of "banned" methods - oh and it makes extensive use of
	deprecates.
	--

I couldn't find any Swing-related sources (nothing that's in
javax.swing is in the distro I downloaded: kaffe-1.0.6.tar.gz).

I think that they're using the Swing files that are written in Java
which are distributed with any of the current Java2 SDKs (like IBM's
or Sun's).  If I'm misconstruing this, let me know.  My idea is to
create our own Swing libraries (i.e., to have the GCJ project have its
own set of Swing sources).  There are a few reasons: 1) like the Kaffe
FAQ says, other Swing implementations might not be so "100% pure java"
as one might hope or think, 2) ours can be faster (this is proven),
and 3) it's bragging rights to have your own Swing impl.  =)

  It's better to have something working now, then
  something faster in the future.
  
I entirely agree with this, and that's why I'd like to curb the
current work on the AWT(*) and start only supporting the subset of AWT
that we need to bootstrap Swing.  If we can be willing to do that, it
will really move the Swing effort along.  The GCJ FAQ currently says
that Swing is a no-can-do because the AWT isn't finished, and I'm just
pointing out that the AWT doesn't have to be *finished* before work on
Swing can begin.  IMHO, we don't know what kind of nasties are going
on in the Swing libraries release with the big SDKs (IBM, Sun), so I
wouldn't bank on what they're doing to work flawlessly.

I don't want to do something that's already been done, but I don't
think that's the case here.  We have the typical resources of a open
source community: lots of hands.  If some would be willing to write a
reasonably complete set of Swing libs, we'd be rockin'!  I know just
how big a job it is....

(*) Let me make a point here: I'm trying to reach the person doing the
AWT stuff so I can start a dialogue, so don't let that statement put
you off, please!

	--troy