Re: GCC 4.4.0 Status Report (2009-03-13)

[Tim Prince <TimothyPrince at sbcglobal dot net>]

Chris Lattner wrote:
> 
> On Mar 23, 2009, at 8:02 PM, Jeff Law wrote:
> 
>> Chris Lattner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> These companies really don't care about FOSS in the same way GCC
>>>> developers do.   I'd be highly confident that this would still be a
>>>> serious issue for the majority of the companies I've interacted with
>>>> through the years.
>>>
>>> Hi Jeff,
>>>
>>> Can you please explain the differences you see between how GCC
>>> developers and other people think about FOSS?  I'm curious about your
>>> perception here, and what basis it is grounded on.
>>>
>> I'd divide customers into two broad camps.  Both camps are extremely
>> pragmatic, but they're focused on two totally different goals.
> 
> Thanks Jeff, I completely agree with you.  Those camps are very common
> in my experience as well.  Do you consider GCC developers to fall into
> one of these two categories, or do you see them as having a third
> perspective?  I know that many people have their own motivations and
> personal agenda (and it is hard to generalize) but I'm curious what you
> meant above.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -Chris
> 
>>
>>
>> The first camp sees FOSS toolkits as a means to help them sell more
>> widgets, typically processors & embedded development kits.  Their
>> belief is that a FOSS toolkit helps build a developer eco-system
>> around their widget, which in turn spurs development of consumable
>> devices which drive processor & embedded kit sales.   The key for
>> these guys is free, as in beer, widely available tools.  The fact that
>> the compiler & assorted utilities are open-source is largely irrelevant.
>>
>> The second broad camp I run into regularly are software developers
>> themselves building applications, most often for internal use, but
>> occasionally they're building software that is then licensed to their
>> customers.  They'd probably describe the compiler & associated
>> utilities as a set of hammers, screwdrivers and the like -- they're
>> just as happy using GCC as any other compiler so long as it works. 
>> The fact that the GNU tools are open source is completely irrelevant
>> to these guys.  They want to see standards compliance, abi
>> interoperability, and interoperability with other tools (such as
>> debuggers, profilers, guis, etc).  They're more than willing to swap
>> out one set of tools for another if it gives them some advantage. 
>> Note that an advantage isn't necessarily compile-time or runtime
>> performance -- it might be ease of use, which they believe allows
>> their junior level engineers to be more effective (this has come up
>> consistently over the last few years).
>>
>> Note that in neither case do they really care about the open-source
>> aspects of their toolchain (or for the most part the OS either).  
>> They may (and often do) like the commoditization of software that FOSS
>> tends to drive, but don't mistake that for caring about the open
>> source ideals -- it's merely cost-cutting.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
> 
Software developers I deal with use gcc because it's a guaranteed included
part of the customer platforms they are targeting.  They're generally
looking for a 20% gain in performance plus support before adopting
commercial alternatives.  The GUIs they use don't live up to the
advertisements about ease of use.  This doesn't necessarily put them in
either of Jeff's camps.

Tim