Re: Email rejected by gcc list

[Nick Burrett <nick at dsvr dot net>]

Stephen Moshier <s_moshier@altavista.com> writes:

> The below dispute has been going on for months so that
> my email to Cygnus goes to a black hole.  Changing ISPs is not an option because Mediaone apparently has a monopoly on broadband service in my neighborhood.
> I know that Mediaone does check for security problems
> because they gave me a citation once and I had to
> upgrade my sendmail installation.  So I am inclined
> to think that ORBS is the one who should back down.

If ORBS considers Road Runner's mail relays to be open then, in all
likeihood, they most certainly are. Road Runner should put the effort
into finding out why ORBS considers their relay to be open and take
steps to fix it, rather than assuming they are correct and ORBS is wrong.

Unfortunately there is probably not a great deal you can do about it.
If you are on a static IP, then it might be possible to create an MX
record for your host and directly connect to the destination mail relays,
effectively skipping those provided by Road Runner.

> Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 22:37:08 -0500
> From: "W. Mark Herrick, Jr." <markh@va.rr.com>
> To: moshier@mediaone.net
> Subject: Re: failure notice (fwd)

[...snipped...] 

> Although we strongly believe in stopping SPAM on the Internet, as well as 
> respect the initial work and charter ORBS has been under in the past, we 
> have serious concerns at the current methods and actions that are taking place:
> 
> e.g.
> - Scanning of private networks without permission from targets

Then Road Runner should also block Netcraft and DoubleClick.net.

> - No REMOVE capability from the ORBS scanner

If there was a REMOVE capability then that would render the functionality
of ORBS useless. MDAs use ORBS to prevent spam - removing an open-relay
from the list would effectively allow spam from open-relays.

> - When someone tries to stop or block the ORBS scans, they are blocked by ORBS.

Fair enough. It is always better to fix the problem, rather than to try
and hide from it.

> - No warning, as well as false public statements about the individuals 
> scanned or their provider. THAT IS: If you have a relay (known, or unknown 
> to you) you are called a SPAM supporter publicly without any warning to 
> correct it before ORBS adds you.

Warnings are given if the ISP tells can satisfy ORBS that they are an ISP
and tells ORBS their IP address allocation.

> - Misinformation on ORBS' own web site 
> (http://www.orbs.org/whatisthis.html) "What is ORBS? The short answer: ORBS 
> is a validated database of open mail relays and open mail relay output 
> points, accessable via DNS lookup."

This is exactly how ORBS works. Misinformation is it not.

> - The addition of Road Runner hosts to a "secret" database. Road Runner 
> hosts are not listed via their normal web lookup at 
> http://www.orbs.org/verify_1.html

If the database were not "secret", then it would provide spammers with a
good list of suitable open-relays though which they could spam. 

 
> Road Runner believes strongly in the fight against SPAM.  We have address 
> it with strong policies, enforcement and our own relay detection 
> methods.  We will continue this effort, work together with other providers 
> and the Internet community (including ORBS) to make a difference.  However,> we reserve the right to assess the methods used, by whom and determine the 
> best way to accomplish the desired results for our business.

Certainly. However I reserve the right to use the ORBS database to stop
open-relays sending mail to my customers. Incidently, after I found out
that ORBS blocked our open-mail relays, I fixed the problem and it has
irradicated all spam outgoing from our systems.


Nick Burrett
Network Administrator
Designer Servers Ltd.