Re: FreeSwing, EvolutionAlgorythms

[Jules Bean <jmlb2 at hermes dot cam dot ac dot uk>]

Per Bothner wrote:
> 
> Tim Wilkinson <tim@transvirtual.com> writes:
> 
> > We'd be interested in this - and since Swing is 100% Java there's no
> > JNI/CNI issues.
> 
> Sun's implementation of Swing is 100% Java.  It is not clear that is the
> right solution for a free re-implementation.  For example, Swing has a
> pluggable look-and-feel archictecture.  When running under (say) Gtk,
> it may make more sense to just make the look-and-feel be a Gtk theme.
> This suggests that Swing Components should have a Peers, which would
> be themable Gtk widgets.  Such an approach would be quite different
> from Sun's approach, but would build on Gtk and should require many
> fewer classes.  The parts of the Swing API that most applications
> use may be much easier to implement this way, and much more
> efficient.  However, a custom look-and-feel in Java would be more
> ineffcient, since it would be a special "theme" that just calls
> back to the Java code.

To implement something as 'extensible' as swing is supposed to be, you
need an 'extensible' widget set.  GTK tries to be this.  Only scouring
the Swing docs (and the GTK docs, which don't exist) would make it clear
whether GTK is up to the task.  [What I mean by 'extensible' is a widget
set which gives you enough primitives to build a new user-interface
element out of existing parts, and hence have it fit in with look and
feel.  Anyone who was a mac-user in the old days saw how apple failed to
do this, and on the transition from OS6 to OS7, applications which had
built their custom widgets suddenly looked quite out of place].


> 
> Of ocurse this is just a vague idea.  I'm just pointing out that we
> may be able to support the most useful parts of the Swing API by
> building on top on non-Java APIs.  If that is a the right long-term
> solution is less clear.

It's interesting to note that, when I was experimenting about a year
ago, kaffe's AWT was the fastest and most stable I'd seen outside of the
MS one.  I.e. it was superior to the Sun/Motif one, and the Apple/Mac
one, for starters - and it was entirely native java.  So native java can
be pretty smooth.

Anyway, there seems to be enough interest in sharing ideas to make it
worthwhile, so I will set up a free-java mailing list and accompanying
web page sometime next week (when I'm back in Cambridge, and have access
to an ethernet internet connection).

Jules


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|  Jules aka     |                               |  Richmond, Surrey   |
|  Julian Bean   | jmlb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk        |  TW9 2TF *UK*       |
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